T20 in 1969

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T20 in 1969

Postby raja » Fri May 17, 2019 12:00 pm

No, it wasn't played then at a known level, but IF there'd been a 1969 T20 competition, which players would have been picked?
Which players would never have been picked?

How would each country's team look?

And how would your ideal IPL franchise look?

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby Daanav » Fri May 17, 2019 12:58 pm

If they had an IPL by then, there would have been no coloured uniforms, no cheerleaders and no helmets. Team would have colour coded caps ( no helmets either).

With the entire concept of limited overs cricket being new, 100 would have been a formidable total.

Most importantly, the Abominable Ambanis would not have been there.

It would be difficult to pick individual players, let alone whole teams. From the top of my head, the following players active in 1969 would have adapted well to the T20 format.

- Gary Sobers
- Clive Lloyd
-Lester King (A West Indian pace bowler and lower order hitter)
-Ian Chappell
-Bruce Taylor (NZ)
-Barry Richards (SA)
-Mike Procter (SA)
-Basil D'Oliveira
-V Subramaniyam
-B K Kunderan
-Alan Knott
-Alan Connoly
-John Gleeson

There are probably others. I am not familiar with Pakistani cricketers of that era as India did not play them and local papers and sports mags did not publish results of games involving Pakistan. We had no TV.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby raja » Fri May 17, 2019 1:46 pm

I'm guessing Farokh Engineer would have been handy too - as wicketkeeper-batsman.
Durrani would've been the Jadeja / Krunal of the time.

Kanhai could've been the KL Rahul type wicket-keeper of his side.

Trevor Goddard would've been handy too, as an all-rounder, cos of his economical bowling.
He'd captain too.

Another economical bowler would've been Nadkarni (though he was out of Tests by 1968, he would've played IPL).
Am not sure batsmen would not have gone after him, though. :-)
Like they do with Negi.
To make sure he was effective, he'd have to avoid playing for the RCB-equivalent of that era.

Lance Gibbs would have been a handy spinner too - also economical.
Probably Derek Underwood too.

Basil D'Oliviera would've been a handy batsman.
As would Graeme Pollock - he'd walk into a side, though I'd hate to see him play ugly shots.

Lee Irvine of South Africa would've been a shoo-in.
Wicket-keeper + hard-hitting batsman.

Peter Pollock as an allrounder too, maybe?
South Africa would've been a more than handy side in a World T20 Championship of the time.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby raja » Fri May 17, 2019 2:01 pm

And of course, there'd be Clive Rice too, just starting out on his career.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby raja » Fri May 17, 2019 2:08 pm

Bob Barber might also have got picked.
Attacking batsman, handy leg-breaks too.

And how could I forget Colin Bland?
He'd walk into any side, with his attacking batting and fab fielding.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby raja » Fri May 17, 2019 2:19 pm

Colin Milburn too - before his accident.
Probably the equivalent of today's Chris Lynn. :-)

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby Daanav » Fri May 17, 2019 7:50 pm

raja wrote:I'm guessing Farokh Engineer would have been handy too - as wicketkeeper-batsman.
Durrani would've been the Jadeja / Krunal of the time.

Kanhai could've been the KL Rahul type wicket-keeper of his side.

Trevor Goddard would've been handy too, as an all-rounder, cos of his economical bowling.
He'd captain too.

Another economical bowler would've been Nadkarni (though he was out of Tests by 1968, he would've played IPL).
Am not sure batsmen would not have gone after him, though. :-)
Like they do with Negi.
To make sure he was effective, he'd have to avoid playing for the RCB-equivalent of that era.

Lance Gibbs would have been a handy spinner too - also economical.
Probably Derek Underwood too.

Basil D'Oliviera would've been a handy batsman.
As would Graeme Pollock - he'd walk into a side, though I'd hate to see him play ugly shots.

Lee Irvine of South Africa would've been a shoo-in.
Wicket-keeper + hard-hitting batsman.

Peter Pollock as an allrounder too, maybe?
South Africa would've been a more than handy side in a World T20 Championship of the time.


Sorry Raja but I have to dispute some of your choices.

Nadkarni as a T20 player? Please! I know he could bowl economically but that was with flexible Test field setting. In a T20 game he would have been hit out of the park and into the next. As for his batting and fielding, less said the better.

Clive Rice was not playing in 1969, was he? I thought he came later.

Durrani is a possibility as a bowler and batsman but his reluctance to move as a fielder would have been disastrous in IPL.

Colin Bland is a definite yessss. I already mentioned Basil D.

I disagree with the choice of Kanhai. He was NOT as attacking a batsman as many people think. He played very attacking shots, yes, but they were few and far between in his innings. Overall he would not have been able to accelerate when needed and would have been a definite liability IMO.

Trevor Goddard is another player unsuitable for limited overs format. Like Nadkarni, his economical bowling was geared around flexible fielding.

Likewise, neither Gibbs nor Underwood be able to adapt to a T20 format. They were raised on the longer game and their styles did not have flexibility.

Lee Irvine is another yesss. Scored fast and could bat well with tail-enders if necessary.

I thought of Graeme Pollock but he would have never agreed to any form of limited overs cricket. He was a very classical batsman, believed in the right technique and you would not catch him dead playing cricket in anything other than whites. In a newsreel clip I once saw him play a straight drive off part-time Oz spinner Keith Stackpole during that memorable 274. To date I swear that is the best cricketing shot that I have ever seen.

One other possibility is Norman O'Neill. By 1969 his career was over although he was only 32 years old at the time. Attacking batsman probably more suited for the limited overs game than tests, he was a bit before his time IMO. He was a nutcase who got into trouble because of his outspoken comments and such.

And remember, if you are talking about IPL, you need lesser known Indian players too, to make-up numbers. There was a North Zone wicket keeper at the time called Daljit Singh who was a good bat thrower at #7 and sometimes got runs very quickly. He also once hit Chandra, Prasanna and Venkat for a six each in a whirlwind innings of 50 in a SZ vs NZ Duleep match in 1966.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby givemeahug786 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:39 pm

Clive Rice not play enough for SA but was excellant player.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby givemeahug786 » Fri May 17, 2019 11:00 pm

i think we need Draft for test player with 55 test
Career Limitetion from all retired cricket test player only -- best team gets honoured at the end.
we need atleast 5 or 6 entry. more will be better.>> Total 11 player you need including 2 opener / 1 keeper/ your choice of allrounder bowlers fast/spin and your choice of Batsman.

Daanav will be 1st in the pool ( YOU CAN NOT SELECTS WHOLE TEAM AT THE SAME TIME ) will selects one player than next person must selects his choice.3rd person not post till 2nd person Show up>>with entry.-- First we need 5 or 6 person who is interested to participate

Note
#if you are late to add player for 15 days next member allow to enter their choice of player.

# Total runs /wickets /all rounder performance /keeper catches etc will be considered for best of best winning team

# example :: Name your team

#1...............{opener batsman}
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7.................{keeper}
#8
#9
#10
#11

test player with 55 (heighest) test limitestion >> 56th test career player not allows

someone suggest me t20 draft for all t20 player around Global world>>international and Non international t20 player but not all member awares of many player of NZ or WI league plus other reasons we scapped idea in the past

here we have raja/Leo/Afghankhan/Tedward/bolero/Asterix/Going South /L.H /Dannav / GMAH / Raj 92/Verity /paddles/katto>> plenty of members.



more details coming up.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby raja » Sat May 18, 2019 5:05 am

Daanav wrote:[Sorry Raja but I have to dispute some of your choices.

That's the idea - to bring your "real-life" knowledge to bear on the topic.

I was almost certain you'd question Nadkarni's inclusion - I threw his name in there for precisely this reason. :-)
You're right - we need to consider that many bowlers who bowled very economically in Tests then, could do so cos of Test-style batting of the times - no need to go after the bowler.
Once this basic criterion changes, it's a completely different ball-game.

Clive Rice started his first-class career in 1969-70.
I'm using "drafting freedom" to throw him here into the auction, as a promising 20-year old. :-)

Yes, I see you mentioned Dolly.
My oversight, sorry.

You offer me new insight about Kanhai.
I always had him pictured as an attacking batsman - maybe cos of that "falling sweep" shot pic which I saw at a very young age, and that has stayed imprinted in my mind.
Maybe he was more like a Rahane of the time?

Even if Gibbs and Underwood did not have flexibility, would they have been easy to hit?

As for Graeme Pollock, ok, let's not spoil our image of him by imagining him playing Kevin Pietersen-like hoicks. :-)
It's bad enough that we see Hashim Amla and Mahela Jayawardene, two other classical batsmen, play ugly shots just to adapt to this format's needs.

I remember Daljit Singh playing for Bihar in the 70s - I guess he played for North Zone earlier.
I had no idea he was a big hitter.

On Indian domestic players, please do suggest more.

What about KR Rajagopal?
Also an attacking batsman, right?
And a keeper, to boot.

And PS Narayanan of Tamil Nadu?

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby raja » Sat May 18, 2019 5:24 am

What about Michael Dalvi?
I remember him being a superb fielder - and a fairly attacking batsman.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby Daanav » Sat May 18, 2019 8:14 am

First of all, is this about T20 in general in 1969 or IPL? If it is T20 in general, we can talk about all players that were suitable for ta format and who were actively playing in 1969. But if you want to hypothesize about IPL in 1969, then you have to have more Indian players for obvious reasons.

Rajagopal was more of a "dependable" than an attacking batsman and IMO not really T20 material.

I have not seen enough of Michael Dalvi to comment; I confess I cannot recall P S Narayanan.

Yes Faroukh Engineer would have been very good at T20 and along with Kunderan would have been important in the team.

About Gibbs and Underwood - they were experts in bowling to their fields which their captains adjusted according to the conditions and facing batsmen. They had at least one slip always and one or two other close-in fielders. I do not think they would have liked bowling to a T20 type of field; Underwood would certainly have struggled in T20, especially in IPL under Indian conditions. Gibbs might have done better, especially on wickets like Chennai and perhaps would have been handy in IPL but in T20 games elsewhere I am not sure. I think he would have struggled as well.

I vaguely recall a Daljit Singh in the 70s but I think that might have been a different man. The Daljit Singh that I saw in the mid and late 60s was a very attacking wicketkeeper-batsman and a good player of spin bowling. He certainly would have been included for one of the IPL teams but might have lost out to Kunderan and Engineer for the Indian international side.

Another Mysore player active in 1969 who definitely would have loved T20 is the all-rounder V S Vijayakumar. He was an opening batsman who made up for his limited talent by a very attacking instinct. He was ideal for opening cameos of 30 to 40 and as a post-powerplay bowler could pitch-in with a wicket or two. Ironically, the spread fields of the 7-20 overs in T20 would have suited him.

Bengal player Ambar Roy was around in 1969. He was another attacking batsman who might have enjoyed the T20 format.

While I am certain of Ian Chappell, two other Oz batsmen could have adapted to T20. One is Doug Walters, who could also hit big sixes and the other opener Keith Stackpole, who was also an underused good off-spinner.

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby Daanav » Sat May 18, 2019 12:35 pm

One problem you will have is making up an effective IPL team from players active in 1969 would be finding spin bowlers, which as we know is important on Indian wickets. None of the "big four" of Prasanna, Chandrasekhar, Venkataraghavan and Bedi would have been ideal. Their success was entirely dependent upon a Test match setting with long attritional bowling, close-in fielders like Solkar or Venkat himself ready to pounce on catches. Asking any of them to bowl 4 economical overs with a relatively new ball and no close-in fielders would not have worked at all. Not one bit. If you wanted yo pick Indian spinners for IPL kind of bowling from that era, you have to think laterally.

Salim Durrani is a definite possibility. He would have worked around the problem of a different setting.

V Subramanyam is another. He is certainly a consideration for his batting but he bowled useful leg spin that was not easy to hit out of the park. Playing a T20 game, he probably would not get many wickets but could limit scoring for 3 or 4 overs without too much trouble.

One spinner who definitely would have bowled IPL way is John "Heinz" Gleeson of OZ but including him would take up one of the four overseas spots. So, you need an Indian spinner who could have altered his style to suit the T20 format. I would peak the least celebrated of the big four - Venkat.

So, if I wanted to form an IPL team out of players active in 1969, it would be as follows (overseas players in italics)

Faroukh Engineer (Bat/wk)
V S Vijayakumar (Bat/seam)
Ian Chappell (Bat)
Gary Sobers (Bat/seam/spin)
Budhi Kunderan (Bat/wk)
Ambar Roy (Bat)
V Subramanyam (Bat/spin)
Mike Procter (Bat/seam)
Salim Durrani (Bat/spin)
S Venkataraghavan (Spin)
Alan Connoly (Seam)

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby raja » Sat May 18, 2019 6:28 pm

I remember VS Vijayakumar very well.
He was still around, playing for Karnataka when I started following the game.
I had no idea he was an attacking batsman.

Btw, you think Kailash Gattani might have got a look-in, as a domestic player in the IPL?
He was pretty sharp, wasn't he?

Your IPL side looks decent, though I don't know much about Connolly.
He and Garth McKenzie were the Aussie mainstay in the 60s, weren't they?

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Re: T20 in 1969

Postby Daanav » Sat May 18, 2019 8:16 pm

Alan Connolly bowled medium-fast at best but he was more wicket-to-wicket and seldom gave batsmen width, which would have suited IPL. He occasionally bowled very good yorkers too. He would not have been easy to get away with T20 type field setting. IMO Connolly would have been a good death bowler.

McKenzie and Neil Hawke bowled together in the mid-60 in Testss; Connolly came in a bit later.

That is not an ideal IPL team by any means but the best I could come up with players active in 1969.

Of the overseas players, Ian Chappell would have approached the game very similar to David Warner. Sobers was always a very good adapter to different conditions. Procter would have to open the bowling and send at least 3 overs down and complete his 4th by the 15th over. Vijayakumar could share the open bowling and bowl 2 overs, probably not required to bowl later. Durrani, Venkat and Sobers would be in charge of the middle overs with 2 overs from Sobers sharing death bowling with Connolly. Subramanyam would likely not be required to contribute except on a slow turning wicket if required.