Jason Holder

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raja
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Jason Holder

Postby raja » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:55 am

In the 3rd Test against Sri Lanka, he scored 74 & 15, and took 9 wickets in the match (4 & 5).

His Test career, after 32 Tests, reads batting average 30.13, bowling average 34.38
Stokes is at 34.85, bowling 33.83
Mitch Marsh 27.85, bowling 42.06 (ouch!)

Holder's ODI record is pretty decent too - batting average of 26, SR of 95, ER of 5.4 (ok, could be better!).

What do you guys think?

Under-rated?

He is hardly ever talked about (though he's captain!). I remember him playing a couple of crucial match-saving/winning innings in Tests.

Would he find a place in today's Aussie ODI side? :grin:

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby Paddles » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:56 am

As a batsman he is immensely underatd by the bookies. Always bet on him up til now as WI top scorer and you'll win. Seriously.

As a bowler - he only has himself to blame (he did well this match - but he rarely bends his back), he has much more pace than he delivers.
Elite honesty:
At the toss Faf said to Finch that you lads can bat - Finch replied "no, no we can't-we really can't".

Finch then saw Travis Head and Darcy Short start put on sun screen and said "Getting a bit optimistic aren't you?"

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby Paddles » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:04 am

Holder as a bolwer has the potential of 140+,

He can as shown in this pink ball test bowl swing like Anderson or Boult (135+)

but he prefers accuracy like Mr Seam Movement McGrath (130+)

So he bowls in the mid 120's without Philanders SR ability to hit the seam?

Discuss.

In short, Holder could rival Dev as an allrounder, he could even rival Imran - but he won't till he up's his pace or bowls like Philander. He has two choices. If i were him, I would take the Dev or Imran option as he has pace in the tank and just doesn't use it. Philander's accuracy on seam is a rarity and useless on roads but great with the Duke or SG or on pitches that bite. If he wants to bowl swing out of the hand, he needs to up his pace to where swing is actually a problem for batsmen of any skill. That's not 150km/h but it is over 130. Darren Sammy obviously didn't teach him the hard way already.
Elite honesty:
At the toss Faf said to Finch that you lads can bat - Finch replied "no, no we can't-we really can't".

Finch then saw Travis Head and Darcy Short start put on sun screen and said "Getting a bit optimistic aren't you?"

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby raja » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:19 pm

I'd say he should bowl quick - and in short bursts, considering he is an all-rounder.
Kapil and Imran managed long careers (Imran albeit with injury) - not sure modern cricketers are upto it.
Maybe it's the schedule or whatever, but they seem to fall apart quite easily.

So instead of trying to be the poor man's Philander - and ending up bowling long spells without success (cos he's just not in that league) - better to be a bit like Flintoff.

I might be wrong but my recollection of Flintoff bowling is that he was more of a shock bowler than a stock bowler.
He'd come on in short bursts, bowling real quick and causing the batsmen all sorts of problems.
Otherwise the attack was largely Anderson, Broad, Harmison, Hoggard, whoever.

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby Leo » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:03 am

Lack of notable performance.
Time is the Best Speaker

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby Paddles » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:27 am

raja wrote:I'd say he should bowl quick - and in short bursts, considering he is an all-rounder.
Kapil and Imran managed long careers (Imran albeit with injury) - not sure modern cricketers are upto it.
Maybe it's the schedule or whatever, but they seem to fall apart quite easily.

So instead of trying to be the poor man's Philander - and ending up bowling long spells without success (cos he's just not in that league) - better to be a bit like Flintoff.

I might be wrong but my recollection of Flintoff bowling is that he was more of a shock bowler than a stock bowler.
He'd come on in short bursts, bowling real quick and causing the batsmen all sorts of problems.
Otherwise the attack was largely Anderson, Broad, Harmison, Hoggard, whoever.


I think your historical assessment is good bar Flintoff being more reverse and bounce than orthodox swing.

Holder doesn't need to be Kapil or Imran bowling like with Gabriel and Roach in the side. They were attack leaders - he doesn't have to be.

But like you - I think he should be bowling faster, because he isn't Philander like with the seam, and in my opinion wants to be McGrath like but slower than McGrath but too (Philander like) slow (but unlike McGrath he can swing it).

Overall - I concur with your conclusion, but disagree with the precise reasons.

What we both agree on - when its not swinging, Holder needs to bowl faster (short or long spells).
Elite honesty:
At the toss Faf said to Finch that you lads can bat - Finch replied "no, no we can't-we really can't".

Finch then saw Travis Head and Darcy Short start put on sun screen and said "Getting a bit optimistic aren't you?"

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby raja » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:44 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... son-holder

34 Tests, 1483 runs, batting average 30.13
Bowling: 81 wickets, 29.35

Favourable conditions in the Windies but glad to see him doing well.

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby Tinsel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:05 am

Why he was failure vs England and Australia
Axar & Chahal failed to take wicket at Banglore vs Proteas A

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby raja » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:46 pm

He is doing well now in favourable conditions.
I checked his stats - batting-wise, they aren't terrible enough against England or Australia to be called a failure.
They're decent.
Bowling-wise, yes, he hasn't been very impressive before this season.
But like he says, he's taken time to get a feel for international cricket, so let's see how he goes from here.
Also, Bangladesh might struggle to face him much more than England or Australia - so I'm not expecting him to run through these sides.

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Re: Jason Holder

Postby Paddles » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:52 am

I've had the utmost faith in his quality low order batting for a long time now.

I still question his bowling until I see him do this against NZ, SA, Eng, maybe even Aus (but they hate movement), definitely in Aus.

His bowling has been innocuous in NZ, and innocuous in England.

So, for me, this could be a Dukes ball just loving the Caribbean environment combined with some terrible batsmanship against swing.

I don't mind either way, I'd love for the WI to have a true allrounder star on their hands.
Elite honesty:
At the toss Faf said to Finch that you lads can bat - Finch replied "no, no we can't-we really can't".

Finch then saw Travis Head and Darcy Short start put on sun screen and said "Getting a bit optimistic aren't you?"