Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby bolero » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:08 pm

Yeah, just to elaborate, I meant Doull and Manjrekar for India criticise without providing solutions.

Sack the coach is very easy to say. As you say, NZ did well in India. NZ is a good team.They just beat Pak 5-0 in ODIs. T20 is a matter of luck.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:09 pm

bolero wrote:Yeah, just to elaborate, I meant Doull and Manjrekar for India criticise without providing solutions.

Sack the coach is very easy to say. As you say, NZ did well in India. NZ is a good team.They just beat Pak 5-0 in ODIs. T20 is a matter of luck.


A lot of NZ's woes are cross format though. In t20 it is exacerbated given KW being ineffective of late.

In tests, at 5 and 6 (and Latham opening) - NZC is short on runs. Raval, KW and Taylor fine.

In odi, at 5, 6, 7 and 8 - NZC is short on runs. CDG will bat in one spot - but his bowling in this format is a problem. Munro, Gup, KW and Taylor fine.

In T20i, at 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 - NZC is short on runs. CDG will bat in one spot - but his bowling in this format is a problem. But the openers in Guppie and Munro are holding their own. But if one of these 2 don't make a score, the innings is falling apart quicksmart. Southee is back cos Milne is injured, it isn't like Hess won't drop him someone is better out there.

Doull wants Seifert for Blundell. Fine. But he won't be opening.

Doull wants Chapman for Taylor. Fine. But he wont be batting ahead of Gup, Munro or KW. And I not only did think Bruce is more likely to go first, he has been confirmed as dropped for Chapman..

Doull wants Devecich for KW or Southee? Does NZ need a 3rd spinner? And he won't be opening neither. He suddenly, in this team and playing xi, with Sodhi and Santner, becomes a lesser utility selection. NZ need a middle order who can score swiftly in the overs 7-20 with field out; all Doull bar #3 Chapman is pointing to is 2 further openers, to go with the 2 we already have.

And Tom Bruce's troubles at intl level after starring domestically are not the best sales pitch for the domestic players. Nor is Blundell's recent limited overs form.

I believe Chapman is an able player, notwithstanding. He makes rookie errors though in his running between wickets and shot selection. But Devecich has had many chances, will get another too at some point, but has not converted them into making himself a regular member of the team.

But none of the above is sack a coach material who has kept NZ at respectable levels for years now doing things his way.

Billy Stanlake pushes NZ around and Maxy is in form. Suddenly Doull thinks Aus have provided the answers to NZC to drop the coach. Well NZ are not used to someone that tall and fast bowling to them, and there's no middle order Maxwell type players in NZ domestic. If there were either, I'd be all over it. Chapman at 3 is the closest NZ has. And he doesn't clear small NZ boundaries a lot. So he still lacks Maxwell's 6 hitting around the ground. But Chapman does hit big with a few shots.

I do hope to see more aggression from KW, though. He's been in this position in limited overs before, and responded very well. But NZC just do not have all the Smith, Warner, Lynn, and the mercurial Maxwell types of IPL big salary players. To suggest NZ should sack its biggest IPL earn, its captain, as well as the coach, with a brand new middle order of opening batsmen, including a third spinner, is just a bit on the nose to the NZC team to me.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:01 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... and-debuts

Tom Bruce and Tom Blundell dropped.

Tim Seifert and Mark Chapman in.

No surprises there. But will take a lot of the wind out of Doull's sails who is now only left with a Devecich gripe for KW and/or Taylor. A more difficult sell for Doull to get public support for dropping the coach over. I understand Devecich's omission despite him rating #1 in run scorers and #3 in bowlers in the recently concluded Super Smash. Too many openers. Too many spinners. 2 new players in the middle order and Devecich not converting prior international opportunities. Taylor and KW are getting more opportunities as proven class players.

So now Seifert and Chapman get their opportunities, and fair enough too. Bruce has just not kicked on when needed and Chapman was pushing for selection. Seifert would have been my option over Blundell for Philips anyway. Hesss just rated him after his test century on debut to see what he had for NZC teams. I get that.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:08 pm

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11989876

Here is someone making sense:

Questions have been raised about New Zealand's Twenty 20 ethos after three consecutive defeats to Pakistan and Australia.
Should captain Kane Williamson be rested? Should coach Mike Hesson be replaced? Should internationals in the format be treated as a development arm of the game?

These points are worthy of debate but the answers, at least through these eyes, are no, no and no.

Up until the second loss to Pakistan on January 25, New Zealand were the No.1 ranked T20 side – they are now No.2 behind Pakistan.
Australia were No.7 but selections based on Big Bash League form proved justified in the seven-wicket win at the Sydney Cricket Ground on Saturday.
However, this is no time to panic. If anything, as selectors Hesson, Gavin Larsen - and before him Bruce Edgar – have shown, loyalty brings rewards if the appropriate homework is done on players' abilities.

One problem for the current side is a consistent failure to perform in Australia. New Zealand's last win there came in the 2011 Hobart test under the coaching reign of John Wright.In eight contests since - three tests, four one-day internationals including the World Cup final, and one T20 - their best was a draw in the 2015 Perth test.Visitors need time and/or experience to acclimatise to the Australian environment which, as generations of players will attest, is arguably the world's most brutal.Teams are bombarded by intimidation when they land, be it from the public, media, opposition, pitches, ground sizes or the country's cricketing pedigree.

Tactically, Williamson's place in the T20 order is a moot point. Ideally he should open where his strike rate (121) and average (38.52) in 27 T20 innings trumps seven outings at No.3 (strike rate 111 and average 21.66).Perhaps he could be switched with Colin Munro whose numbers at No.3 in 13 innings (strike rate 157, average 30.41) remain valuable compared to nine innings opening (strike rate 171, average 57).
The thought of New Zealand choosing to play without Williamson defies belief, unless they want to devalue the format. Yes, creeping to eight off 21 balls at the SCG was a poor look, but Australia weren't bowling pies. Just because he refuses to paste everything through cow-corner doesn't make him any less of a T20 batsman. Ask the Sunrisers Hyderabad, who bid $640,000 for his services in this season's Indian Premier League. His fielding, and potentially bowling, are also assets.

Besides, what's the alternative?

Is it preferable to drop Williamson, let New Zealand's batsmen tee off helter-skelter and get dismissed for the T20 equivalent of their test match worst 26 against England in 1955? That result saw them lampooned by the cricketing world for generations. A Plan B should always be accessible. Williamson provides that option better than anyone.

The thought of repositioning Hesson mid-contract also generates head-scratching.

He has signed to coach and select the New Zealand team across all formats until the 2019 World Cup.
The Black Caps have had unprecedented success under his watch. Arguments he is away from his family for sustained periods held weight in previous seasons – although no-one is forcing him to sign the contract – but last winter only held the Champions Trophy. The upcoming winter looks bereft of matches.

To address the final point, if selectors Hesson and Larsen chose to propagate players through T20s, surely that would dilute the credibility of the format and treats fans with disrespect.If people fork out hard-earned income to see the Black Caps, they deserve to see the best regardless of format.The Super Smash is the nest for development, otherwise international matches become meaningless.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:16 pm

Likely NZ team next match:

1 Guptill
2 Munro
3 KW
4 Chapman
5 Taylor
6 Seifert
7 CDG
8 Santner
9 Southee/Wheeler
10 Sodhi
11 Boult
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:16 am

And now the specialist T20 coach referred to by Doull has come out and said that T20 specialists are not required for coaching nor captain playing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/1 ... th-hopkins

"They can absolutely adapt between formats of the game and improve on that," he said. "Having specialists for T20 doesn't say much because you have to look at the quality of the individual... You've got to remember that England and Australia has a much larger cricketing population, so you've got to pick the right players [for New Zealand]."


And if we're realistic about this, a lot of England's t20 core which is sans Root and Stokes at the moment have played tests or are still in the test frame, Hales, Morgan, Woakes, Rashid, Ali, Butler et al. Bairstow too when he plays t20.

Like Doull, I noticed that England freshened its odi team up after being beaten soundly in the Ashes and took down an Australian team with far more test players. I also noticed Australia trim a lot of those test players down during the series and in this t20 with a reversal in t20 results now. That is interesting. What it isn't is a blue print for NZC to follow when we don't have the same cattle that Aus and Eng do. And Steve Smith deserves a break more after a winter in India for a 4 test tour plus t20 and odi, Champs Trophy and Bangladesh test tour where he suffered some undesired results in the subcontinent despite proving himself throughout the year to be the best test batsman on the planet. Whereas KW just played some limited overs in India and the Champs trophy. Different workload schedules entirely. Plus KW's 2018 limited overs form is better than Smithy's who was by his own admission struggling in the England series to hit the ball of the square.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:03 am

I don't quite know what to make of this.

One of my big hopes for the summer was for Sean Solia to continue his stellar debut season form with the bat from last season.

He has not. He hasn't even gone past 50. With scores of 13, 29. 31 and 17 he will be well disappointed. What has changed, is that he is bowling useful seam ups now at 2nd and even 1st change; 2/30, 4/46; 1/43 and 1/34.

Now a cynic would say that there is nothing unusual about yet another bright Kiwi batting hope to lose his way with the bat and then use his medium bowling to further selection hopes. In fact, it is a fair list of past and present players. And Solia needs more runs. Well, he does. But if he continues to develop his bowling, maybe he could find a place in the NZ lower middle order instead of higher up in the NZ ODI batting order.

But I do hope that he makes some consistent runs soon.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:55 pm

T20 Tri Series

Australia has done NZ a favour by thrashing England. But not swift enough.

So NZ has to win 2 of its remaining 3 games, of which only 1 is against Australia to make the final. Australia has already qualified.

If NZ and England finish 1 win each, the finalist to play Australia will be decided by run rate, which leaves NZ in a spot of bother as they are behind England despite having only lost 1 game whereas England has lost 2.

NZ will need to thrash England once, and lose its reaming 2 games closely to get to the final with only 1 win.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:00 pm

Congrats to Ross Taylor to getting to 7000 ODI runs in 188 innings, equal to Kallis and only behind ODI cricket legends like Amla, Kohli, ABDV, Ganguly, Lara and Haynes.

He beats the likes of Dhoni, Ponting, Anwar and M Waugh to the mark and has just been scoring more runs than ever in recent times, averaging 54.5 under KW and 74.5 under Latham.

Well done Ross.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Boycs » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:07 pm

Ponting is a suprise, Dhoni I get. Taylor is a class player.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby raja » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:11 am

Was pleasantly surprised to see Ross averages an impressive 45 in ODIs, with an SR of 82.
I didn't think he had those sort of performances - can't remember any of his innings (but that's more me, than him).
Rohit Sharma has a marginally less ODI average - and an SR of 86.
And we know how hyped up Rohit Sharma is.

NZ has the most under-rated players of them all.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby jamesjohn70 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:22 am

Flying horse shaped drone?

--------------------------------
Now Cric booth Just Starting PSL Live Streaming free and Update about All Matches

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:21 pm

So years after his last chance, Todd Astle got a game in NZ, and with 3/39, and a contribution of 18 runs, Todd had every reason to celebrate.

But he may be one of NZ's most unlucky players ever. Finally getting ahead of Patel, Craig and Sodhi, Vettorri retired and Santner injured, Todd Astle has injured himself and Sodhi will play the next test. This leaves the NZ team with a very long batting tail starting with Southee at 8. This is not ideal. Especially if Stokes is back to bowling fitness, England could have Woakes at 9. But Sodhi ought to be more threatening to batsmen than Ali's offies on current form.

This has been a peculiar summer for the three NZ spinners in Santner, Sodhi and Astle. Santner lived upto his initial billing with the bat in this summer's limited overs games, with consistent scores of 40 and more including some crucial knocks scored well under pressure. His limited overs bowling is still excellent, and even better as it has more variety with the carom ball.

But his test game has not demonstrably been shown to be at the same level previously, and at 6 he seems to be batting too high, and not threatening with the ball.

Astle with the ball in tests does look threatening with the ability to get big turn from his leggies and bowl effective variations. A former first class opening batsman, there is a hint of all round talent in his play, although not yet entirely convincing. But he does keep scoring runs in domestic cricket.

Sodhi will be disappointed Astle usurped his position in ODI, but must appreciate that he is the weakest batsman of the 3 spinners. Sodhi now gets a chance in a test match. Good luck Ish. With CDG able to bowl a lot of cheap overs, and Wagner able to bowl very long spells, Sodhi's expensive nature in tests may be limited in the first England innings, with him bowling more in England's second innings should the game advance to NZ's gameplan. That said, wherever Ish bats, the NZ batting seems very light with CDG at 7 and Southee at 8. So hopefully Ish can demonstrate how hard he has been working on his batting in this test match.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:13 am

I missed the NZC awards show.

The Supreme winner was Trent Boult.

The test player was Boult, the odi player Taylor, and the T20 player was Munro.

All fair enough.

The curious winner was Neil Wagner of First Class bowling. Now this does not typically identify actual first class cricket, but more indicative of tests of late. But to have Boult as the test player of the year ahead of Wagner as bowler of the year, would suggest that Boult's batting came to the fore over Wagner's, which it did not given Wagner's heroics in saving the second test against England.

It seems to me as though it was a scheme to give more credit to NZ's bowlers this year.

First Class Batting went to Taylor. Domestic player of the year was Ajaz Patel who bagged a lot of wickets as NZ's spin ranks deepen.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby bolero » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:30 am

NZ have a strong team with Boult and Wagner.

I still felt Martin Crowe was a dynamic skipper and Stephen Fleming was astute. I dont know of Kane's attributes as a captain, except he is a cool captain and well behaved. The team is a solid one.

Sodhi and Santner are good spinners, its an embarassment of riches in the bowling department.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Boycs » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:43 am

I should be proud we came away with only a 1:0 loss!

We are the worst of the test teams when it comes to touring these days. Makes me weep with shame

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:16 am

bolero wrote:NZ have a strong team with Boult and Wagner.

I still felt Martin Crowe was a dynamic skipper and Stephen Fleming was astute. I dont know of Kane's attributes as a captain, except he is a cool captain and well behaved. The team is a solid one.

Sodhi and Santner are good spinners, its an embarassment of riches in the bowling department.


Hi Bolero, nice things you say about NZC here.

I also agree with you, Kane's attributes as a captain are still rather unknown in tests, but slightly more proven in defending totals in limited overs.

But I disagree because Sodhi and Santner are not proven test wicket takers. While they both are high quality limited overs bowlers, Santner has only proven ability to hold an end cheaply in tests, and Sodhi, well despite his good first class showings this year, is still not an economical test wicket taker.

Astle to me of those 3 looks the best to fill an all rounder role, and take wickets. I want him to get more chances. But KW does not overtly have confidence in his bowling as yet. Is KW defensive to leg spinners in tests or does Astle need to prove his worth? It would not surprise me at all if A Patel, subject to Astle failing, finishes the next home season as a test spinner despite lacking batting more ability like Santner and Astle. NZ does not have an embarrassment of riches in tests due to lacking a proven spinner, despite how good Boult and Wagner are, and I must point out that Wagner is already 32 as his good bowling that makes him better than most is based on his fitness to personal physical exhaustion and pushing himself beyond what most bowlers in test cricket are prepared to endure.

NZ has seam options, most swing and a touch slower than ideal, or leak a few runs like Kuggs, but while NZ has many useful spinners, we are still lacking proven high quality spinners for test. Far less of an issue in limited overs where Santner and Sodhi are already well respected and known, especially by the harshest judges of spin, the fans on the sub continent.
Last edited by Paddles on Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:23 am

Boycs wrote:I should be proud we came away with only a 1:0 loss!

We are the worst of the test teams when it comes to touring these days. Makes me weep with shame


It was a long tour for England, and in many ways the NZC fightback with Sodhi and Wagner was overdue given NZ's slump at Lord's in 2015 from a winning position, and Prior and Panesar denying NZ at home in 2013 with a 10th wicket stand. NZ is good at home, but for rain we would have drawn with Safrica, and Australia, well they thrashed us, but Wagner only played the second test of that series when discovered his bouncer tactic.

NZC currently continue to fancy chances in England. But I don't see NZC beating beating India or Safrica anytime away soon. Aus without Smith and Warner, well that could be interesting if it were scheduled.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:31 am

I'm calling it now. Neil Wagner has hit cult sporting icon status in NZ, and deservingly so. He is not yet on advertisements hawking crap for big companies, but I do not disregard this possibility occurring next summer.

The biggest things for NZC in the upcomming weeks is obviously the IPL. And this means most for NZC's most important player, KW. I wrote on here not long ago that I was disapointed that he went to the SRH, a team built around Warner, but this year there is no Warner. This is KW's chance to really build and shine as a T20 player. Not long ago Simon Doull wanted him dropped from the NZ team. Now, he will be captaining an IPL team that is used to success.He will need to make up for a lot of Warner's runs for this success to continue.

I hope KW steps up to the task. But this is the exact type of IPL opportunity that I wanted for him. Now he has it. It will be marvellous for his own game, and NZC fans if he meets the task and not only passes it, but knocks it to the boundary.

Colin Munro has quit red ball cricket, so there isn't much in the IPL for him to look forward to as a NZC fan beyond him bagging some good scores. I wish him well, and every success. Santner's injury prevents him from showing his wares, this is a real loss to NZC. He would have benefited greatly from bowling and batting in India. I don't really care how NZ seamers do in the IPL, Boult and Southee have little to prove nor learn in the IPL. Sodhi or Astle if they had been signed would be another matter altogether.

Basically all NZC interest in this IPL is on;

KW developing his t20 batting,
CDG bowling well in t20 and reading leg spin when batting,
Corey Anderson's post injury comeback,
Colin Munro getting some big scores,
Guptill replacing an injured or suspended player and finally getting runs on Indian pitches.

The seam bowling specialists are largely irrelevant for the growth and improvement of NZC, as long as they are not injured. I couldn't care less for Mitchell McClenaghan. What is best for NZC is KW becoming a t20 force, CDG either bowling well in t20 (and reading leg spin when batting) or Corey Anderson finding his 2014-15 all round form.
Last edited by Paddles on Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:42 am

yes. We fans of SRH demand miracles from KW, I am sure he will deliver.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:47 am

Going South wrote:yes. We fans of SRH demand miracles from KW, I am sure he will deliver.


Well this year, the SRH will have the full support of almost all NZC fans in this end. Most of us know that he is more than good enough, it is only a question of whether he can find a successful way to execute and demonstrate this.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:44 pm

hope tom moody and KW get along well. hope there is no bad blood between them.

You can only have 4 international players. one is locked up. need to rotate other 3. It would be interesting to see his preferences.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:13 am

Going South wrote:hope tom moody and KW get along well. hope there is no bad blood between them.

You can only have 4 international players. one is locked up. need to rotate other 3. It would be interesting to see his preferences.


It is Moody's team. KW just has to execute Moody's orders and worry about making his own runs. There isn't much left upto the captain under Moody in the IPL. Maybe KW might bowl a few overs if he thinks it will help the team, but he typically underbowls himself.

Warner is a huge loss for SRH, and KW will be under pressure to make some big Warner type runs at Warner type high SR, or Moody will have to do some serious restructuring to his gameplans.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:55 am

So KW is making runs for SRH, averaging 46 after the first 3 games, albeit runs made in an anchoring type role with a low SR, barely over 110.

But he seems happy to have SRH chase, and the SRH bowlers are just getting the job done up front for his team.

Colin Munro has had 2 failures and has been dropped from the starting team, replaced by Roy who made a dashing 90 odd to lead his side to victory. So looks like Colin will get more time on the benches and less out in the middle.

Mumbai Indians have called up Adam Milne. I hope he will be bowling with better pace than he did when playing for NZ in India late last year.

Bouit is doing well, no sight yet of Sodhi nor Southee.

Former NZ players:

Mitch has failed in his one outing and been dropped, and BMac is 1 hit and 1 failure. Mitch may have some cricket career re-thinking to do soon, as his lack of good form continues since leaving the NZC setup for T20 franchises.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:20 am

The evolution of Colin de Grandhomme is a fascinating prospect for any NZC fan. As a test prospect, his continued selection during the 2016/17 raised many eyebrows, even upsetting some pundits. And yet, with very tidy bowling and taking wickets at an average of just over 25 in 2016/17, Colin managed to keep his place in the side, and even open the bowling when injuries troubles hit NZ vs Safrica.

While keeping his ER almost as tidy in 20178/18 as he did the year before, Colin's wicket-taking abilities this past summer were nullified by the opposing batsmen - and he averaged over 36 with the ball, so you'd expect him to score some runs to keep his place in the team safe. Score some runs he did. He was NZ"s highest run scorer this summer, which largely went under the radar with KW and Taylor scoring important centuries. Having averaged just over 25 with the bat in 2016/17, CDG managed to crank this up to 55.16 in 2017/18, and in just 6 innings, managed to score a century, 2 50's, including a 72 and a very valuable 45 to help save the final test.

His ODI form was solid, but not as spectacular as his test form, with him not being trusted to bowl his full quota often, averaging about 5 overs per game, despite his overall economy rate being at a respectable 5 runs per over. He batted NZ to one ODI win vs Pakistan, but fizzled out against England averaging under 15 with the bat.

Ironically, the format that he made a name for himself in, T20, he has just been horrid. His bowling continues to be ineffective in slowing fast scoring, in fact it may actually invite premeditated boundary shots, and his batting has been largely ineffective.

The next development of note, was Santner. No, he didn't spin NZ to any test victory. But he finally displayed some of the batting talent that he has. After continual career disapointments, and in a team where the batting was struggling and succumbing to the English bowling attack regularly, Santner took his opportunities and went on a scoring run of:

45*, 63*, 41, and 67, and typically made in good time too as you would expect runs made by a number 8 to be.

Raval had a disapointing summer overall, after starting well enough against the West Indies. Latham had a summer of ups and downs. Ferguson didn't meet up to the the early season hype in internationals. And Colin Munro has quit red ball cricket which is a concern for depth. Colin had a disapointing ODI summer averaging mid 20's but bowled well enough at a good ER. But he had a more than useful t20 summer, culminating in an IPL deal with Delhi, where he has since been dropped.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:31 am

@Simon Doull, Kane Williamson is currently the highest scorer in the IPL this season. Is this good enough for him to make your NZ T20 team now or would you still leave him out.
Last edited by Paddles on Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:19 am

The best fielder in the NZC setup is widely acclaimed to be Martin Guptill. And fair enough. But I think Kane Williamson just edges him on being the best catcher.

But there is someone else who is very good, and unusually so as they're a fast bowler. The catch of this years IPL so far is left handed Trent Boult's right handed grab off Kohli.



But I said at the time despite this, it wasn't his best catch. And here's why.

Watch the right-handed out field catch at the end of this video, running and diving forward in the outfield. Just incredible.



And watch this right-handed caught and bowled.



There has been nothing reported about Trent Boult being ambidextrous. Which makes these catches even more special. He may never take a greater single catch than McGrath's famous boundary effort, but he certainly is making a claim for being the best catcher of any fast bowler who has played the game. Southee and Milne are also very good, especially for seam bowlers, and this has helped NZ to be very strong in the field in recent seasons.

But that Boult outfield running in catch, one-handed in the right hand in a test match, that I think may just be better than McGrath's for difficulty factor. It is like Tendulkar's Lords catch, but in the wrong hand, and requiring a dive. Amazing.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby baggygreenmania » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:06 am

I saw that catch.. simply stunning. I have seen Boult pull off some sensational fielding. He is a rarity among fast bowlers in the outfield. Gotta say one of the best outfield snags I have seen by a bowler was the miraculous one by McGrath years ago. Complete fluke. Sure Glenn would concur.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 4545097367

Who are the Black Caps playing next paddles?
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:13 am

baggygreenmania wrote:I saw that catch.. simply stunning. I have seen Boult pull off some sensational fielding. He is a rarity among fast bowlers in the outfield. Gotta say one of the best outfield snags I have seen by a bowler was the miraculous one by McGrath years ago. Complete fluke. Sure Glenn would concur.

Who are the Black Caps playing next paddles?


Pakistan in final week of October. Then our typical Sri Lanka and Bangladesh home full series with India coming for just limited overs matches.

We get an over supply of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh. They don't even rate all that well here.

If I had free tv connected, I would seriously think about disconnecting my Pay TV until October.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:26 am



That is a very nice grab by Elliott after misreading the trajectory.

Yeah, Boult is ridiculously good in the outfield as well as with his "weak" hand anywhere.

He is fantastic in the gully. But with his speed and arm - is often in the outfield.

One of the big shames with KW being made captain, is often he likes to field at short extra cover, and especially short mid wicket ever since in limited overs (but he's back in gully for tests now as he probably has seen enough missed off Boult's bowling to change back). Sometimes he will make himself a short mid off or short mid on position. He is also a freak in the gully and at point in the Ponting, Rhodes mould. But I guess he likes a better view of the game from Allan Border's favourite spot. He likes to be as square to the bowler and in front of the wicket as the field set permits him to be. That said, he is taking the odd very good catch off pull shots in short mid-wicket. But he was far more threatening squarer to the batsman and on the off side.

NZ fielding is beggining to slip though from where it was in 2015 and 2016 with Sodhi, Munro, Raval, Taylor being more ordinary, and Santner dropping half his catches despite good fielding. CDG is nothing special either.

For a while it was like watching the globetroppers fielding in cricket.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed May 09, 2018 5:19 pm

Lol.

KW scores a 50 on a win - NZ's leading news websites nzherald and stuff rdeort it. Sodhi takes 1/14 in a win goes unreported.

Its a batsman's game :-) Right?
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun May 13, 2018 12:49 pm

I make no secret in this thread where I stand on KW in T20. I also make no secrets in thread where I stand on Mike Hesson. Wider in this forum, my views on Tom Moody are well known. If you read back on this forum, I went after Simon Doull for suggesting that KW was not good enough as a t20 player. So with 7 50's in just 12 games this year - this post is me relishing in a rather unsubtle - I told you so.

Lets start with Tom Moody

http://www.dnaindia.com/cricket/report- ... ow-2614532

Kane Williamson has been a revelation in IPL 2018 so far both with the bat and with his leadership skills. However, Sunrisers Hyderabad head coach Tom Moody is not surprised at all. Moody said that the New Zealend batsman has been a good T20 player for a number of years.

"To be honest it has not been a surprise to us. Kane (Williamson) has been a good T20 player for a number of years. It is really an opportunity for people watching to see the versatility in Kane Williamson," he said.

"He has got a T20 hundred, I think about four years ago in the Champions League. It is no surprise to us that Kane has the ability to adapt from Test cricket to 50-over cricket, down to T20 cricket. That is why we bought him four years ago," Moody said on the eve of their IPL match against Chennai Super Kings.

"A pure batsman still is very dangerous in this format. Probably the best example would be Mike Hussey. He was seen as a pure Test cricketer but I tell you what, he could play T20 cricket too. Williamson has led SRH from the front and has performed throughout the tournament, amassing 493 runs in 11 games with the highest score of 84."

The SRH head coach also said that the entire squad takes pride in defending low totals.

"It is something that the whole squad takes pride in, because defending a total is a collective responsibility and you obviously need bowlers but also 10 other fielders to take responsibility," Moody said.

Moody clarified that SRH, who are table toppers at present, won't be making any experiments going forward and want to finish in top two.

"We will not be looking to make any sort of experiments moving forward. To us, it is about looking for constant improvement. We are looking to play our best XI on any given day. We ideally want to finish on top two, we have still got some unfinished business there."

"We still see this as an opportunity and you know, momentum is important in this format. Ideally we would like to keep the winning momentum," he said.

Moody also said that the game against Delhi Daredevils where SRH chased 187, was an opportunity for his batsmen to express themselves.

"Delhi was an opportunity for us to express ourselves as a batting group and both Kane (Williamson) and Shikhar (Dhawan) did it in great style," he said.


Well done Tom. You're a savvy coach.

Lets move on to Hesson.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/1 ... williamson

Black Caps coach Mike Hesson has seen enough of his star captain to know exactly how to counter him.

Kane Williamson is third on the IPL scoring charts with 493 runs in 11 innings, including six fifties. He's proved a nightmare for opposition bowlers, who can't find a way to put a halt to his scoring.

Working for Star Sports India, Hesson has provided some insight into how to stop Williamson from accumulating runs in his trademark, risk-free manner, but it isn't strictly legal.

Hesson thinks you need a 12th fielder on the park, otherwise you're screwed.

Standing around a table mapped out like a cricket field, Hesson talks about Williamson running the ball down to third man, and how you can stop that with a crafty fielding position in that region.

However, Williamson then opens up other parts of the field.

"Williamson, what he does is all of a sudden he walks across the crease, and just nicks it [into square leg] for one or two.

"Then what they do, is they move the man from midwicket around to square leg to make sure he can't do that.

"Then he hits it into midwicket for one or two, and as a captain you're sitting there going, what am I going to do?"

Rather than having something up his sleeve, Hesson goes to his pocket for the solution.

"For me, what you need to do is bring out this extra guy, super man, and we're going to put him [into midwicket].

"We're going to have to have 12."


Sage advide Mike. I agree 12 fielders will help contain KW better.

And now Doul after Moody spent over 700k on KW and Mike kept selecting him.

http://www.espn.com/cricket/story/_/id/ ... t20-set-up

Former New Zealand pace bowler Simon Doull wants drastic changes in the New Zealand T20 set-up, including the replacement of the captain and coach. Doull said the current T20 squad had too many Test players, and stated that captain Kane Williamson shouldn't be in the side unless he opens.

"I don't think we are getting the selections right. I've had some concerns for a while," Doull told Radio Sport. "If Kane Williamson doesn't open in T20, he shouldn't be playing. His record opening is very good - at three and four, it's not that great. But he shouldn't be in the T20 side, there's a lot who shouldn't be in the T20 side."

Williamson has scores of 8, 9 and 0 from his last three T20 internationals and the last knock of 8 against Australia came from 21 balls while batting at No. 3 in Sydney last week. In his last 11 T20I innings over the last 12 months, Williamson crossed 30 only once and had a strike rate of 100.54 and average of 18.60.

Doull was not critical of the team's performances under Hesson but was wary of how the current cricket calendar was hardly giving the coach any time off. He also suggested that finding a younger replacement for Hesson, who is 43, only for the T20 side could help bring about an overall change in approach in the shortest format. Since the beginning of last year, New Zealand are fifth among the current Test-playing nations, with a win-loss ratio of 1.17 after Pakistan, India, South Africa and West Indies.

"He's a great coach who has done an amazing job, and has really grown into the job," Doull said. "But he gets very little time off, only a small amount of time with his family. Give him T20 completely off, get a new coach, new ideas, a new bunch of players.

"[The coach] probably needs to have played the [T20] game to understand it a bit better. The Northern Knights [winners of this season's Super Smash] had Gareth Hopkins solely as their T20 coach and he had played until recently. The rest of the coaches around the country are a bit older, out of touch with T20."

Doull, who has been a leading commentator for several years now, called for injecting more dynamism in the existing structure for the shortest format. He said senior batsman and limited-overs specialist Martin Guptill would "relish the captaincy and responsibility" if he was asked to take over the reins from Wiiliamson. In addition, he suggested that Colin de Grandhomme be promoted up the order and that Anton Devcich, Mark Chapman and Tim Seifert be given an opportunity ahead of Ross Taylor and Tim Southee.

"I would like to see Colin de Grandhomme batting higher but it is the selections, not the batting order [which is the problem]. We want dynamic players and should be giving them an opportunity at T20 level."

At the SCG, in the opening T20 of the Trans-Tasman Trophy, New Zealand had managed only 117 for 9, after a 24-ball 38 from de Grandhomme relatively revived the team from 60 for 5.


Well done Doully. I'm glad you're not coaching NZ players.

Earlier this week on the Baggy Green thread I said Moody takes a different approach with captains in Warner or Williamson. And he has since said that of course they're different and cannot be compared.

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news ... 44125.html

Kane Williamson, a last minute replacement for scandal-tainted David Warner as captain, was hailed on Wednesday as the key to Sunrisers Hyderabad's domination of the Indian Premier League by coach Tom Moody.

The 27-year-old Williamson has hit 410 runs and made brilliant tactical decisions as the Sunrisers have taken the IPL by storm winning eight of their 10 games.

"Kane is a very astute captain. There is no secret in that either, we know what he has done with New Zealand," Moody said ahead of his team's away game at Delhi Daredevils on Thursday.

"Most people forget Kane's not that old really when it comes to being around international cricket, but he has got a very wise head and he reads the game very well and he has managed our pressure situations really well."

The demanding Moody also praised his own links with his skipper.

"It's great to have someone like Kane taking that responsibility.

"And from my perspective it has been terrific because we have formed a strong partnership which I think is important in regards to our planning for matches, reviewing matches and moving on as quickly as possible," said the former Australia batsman.

Fallen Australian star Warner led Sunrisers to their only IPL title in 2016, but Moody said the two cannot be compared.

"Every leader has a different captaincy style. David Warner was a very succesful captain for us for the last couple of years. He has got a trophy to his credit," said Moody.

Williamson this week also played down comparisons with the hard-hitting Warner, banned for a year by Australia over his involvement in a ball tampering scandal in South Africa.

"I don't think it's a matter of replacing David Warner. I think that's probably an impossible thing to do.

"He is one of the best T20 batters in the world and for this franchise in the last few years," said Williamson.

Sunrisers, with four games left in the league stage, are close to becoming the first team to book a place in the IPL's final four.

This year's seven week tournament has $8 million in prize money, including $4 million for the team crowned champions at the May 27 final in Mumbai.


I'm stating it now, if NZ lose Hesson, I want Moody to coach NZC. He's flexible, he's intuitive, he's flexible and he's logical!
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:11 am

And ironically, the worst thing imaginable bar KW's untimely retirement or demise has happened.

NZC has lost Hesson. He leaves NZC with a winning test record (amazing) and with NZ limited overs cricket seeing a purple patch of wins - even away in SA!

There is no news of a replacement appointment as yet but Grant Bradburn is a leading contender.

Hesson's record speaks for itself. His mistakes - and he did make a few in my opinion* - were far outnumbered by what he got right; and he made a lot of bold calls. My respect for what he has done for NZC is immense. I haven't always agreed with him, but he earned my utmost respect as a selector and tactician years ago. I hope the next coach is as good as him, but I am not confident of this. Hesson has been an epic success, not perfect, but brilliant nevertheless.

Tests: Played 53, won 21, lost 19, drawn 13
Current world ranking: 4

ODIs: Played 119, won 65, lost 46, tied 1, no result 7
Current world ranking: 4

Twenty20: Played 59, won 30, lost 24, tied 2, no result 3.
Current world ranking: 4

Highlights
- Making New Zealand's first World Cup final in 2015, a loss to Australia
- Semifinals of the World T20 in India in 2016, a loss to England
- Overseeing 13 successive wins at home in the 2017-18 season
- Beating England in a test series in April, for the first time since 1999

Things he got wrong:

*Wagner was out of tests for too long
*Raval was not picked for too long
*Munro never given a second chance in tests
*Possibly Ryder could have been given a reprieve
*Champs Trophy 2017
*Patel over Astle and Santner in tests last year

but bold calls he got right include:

*NZ seam attack in ODI
*CDG in tests
*Santner in limited overs
*balancing batting with bowling in all formats
*aggressive play esp in ODI and T20
*continuing with Latham in ODI as a keeper in the middle order
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:39 pm

So the new coach is Gary Stead. I know nothing about him as a coach.

Right now, Hesson has handed over a very good and stable core in all formats.

So Stead doesn't have to make huge changes at the start of his tenure.

There are some areas that need improvement more pressing than in other areas, spin in tests is one, and NZ is playing Pakistan away next month with Santner having been injured since England was in NZ.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:04 am

Not really. Doesn't let me know anything about his approach to the role of coaching, selecting, and setting game plans.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Going South » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:48 pm

Image

got this on whatsapp. never knew. hmmm. silent warrior.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby raja » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:52 pm

Guptill has the most runs in T20s?
I didn't know.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:21 pm

T20i cricket.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/wi/conten ... 82827.html

Munro and Sharma have the most centuries.

For regular t20 cricket - it is the two you'd expect:

Gayle and McCullum. McCullum just plays everywhere.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/conten ... 84267.html

Pollard has the most games - but bats too low, these records very much favour the openers for obvious reasons.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:05 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... -100-tests

The good news, Ross wants to play past the World Cup, the bad news, he has only raised the bar to the summer 15 months from now.

Interestingly BJ Watling wants to play at the World Cup, but with Latham and Philips (on the rise) - I don't like his chances.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:06 pm

Santner is still injured and will miss the Pakistan series. Massive blow for NZ's chances in the limited overs fixtures. His batting came on last home season and he has been NZC's best ODI bowler with Boult for years now.

Todd Astle is making a case to replace him in the A games.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:02 am

This post is more for Bolero than anyone else who is so interested in people of Indian origin. But:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/ ... 59767.html

Rachin Ravindra (the next big hope for NZC identified early at schoolboy level and carefully managed) has played his first List A/First Class level match.

And it was for NZA!

His talent suggests that he will be a top order batsman one day - at least that is what he has been groomed to be, but he has some very useful spin bowling as well.

The spin bowling utility has enabled him to be fast-tracked.

If all goes well, he should be ready to replace Ross Taylor (or Latham slip down to 4) when he retires.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:27 pm

NZA tour of UAE vs Pak A is not going all that well.

But, for highlights, Lockie had a good showing, but perhaps the most critical - Todd Astle is having a consistently fine time. Not just with the ball, but with the bat also. He is not in the T20 squad, but is in the ODI and test squad. I hope he is given fair opportunities ahead of Sodhi. I think he has earned them.

Really not much to write home about in terms of the batting - Will Young consistent but slowwwwwww (twin 40's off 63 and 62 balls) - Watling going a slow 75.

Watling wants to goto the World Cup - personally I would rather see Henry Nicholls warm up his wicket keeping skills this summer and be the back up to Latham - it is how Nicholls got into the team - as the backup to Luke Ronchi back in the day.

Failing that - take the player out of Phillips and Seifert that is in the best form. Watling's skills and prowess of batting time, and negotiating swing and seam well will be redundant in England's World Cup roads of pitches.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:45 am

Stead's opening tenure seems sensible.

He plans to play both Sodhi and Astle in the ODI series vs Pakistan. I am not sure that he is right that Ish is the more creative of the two, but he does rip the googly more.

And he wants KW to bowl himself more in all formats. I agree. And have been saying this for a while. Fortunately - Munro has done a good job as the 6th bowler, KW should reserve this for spinning tracks.

But I really do not want to see more of Sodhi in the test team unless he does something remarkable in the limited overs series'.

Astle for mine in the test team - and try out A Patel.

[edit] Actually - I just read his World Cup preparation and I am less impressed. I am not alleging foul, but I observe that the player on the recruitment team that appointed him coach, is the oddball selection in the ODI squad in Watling.

Watling will not suit NZ's plans to win a World Cup in England. The pitches will be flat. And is Watling is going to be batting 5 or 6 with Nicholls - the practical solution is to give the gloves to Nicholls (get him warming up those skills presently in domestic), and play the next best batsman in the country - whoever that is (I really have no idea as NZ is short on batsman right now).

As for Worker next in line after Munro - I hope for better. But maybe there are is noone with better claims unless Phillips finds some consistency (who is a keeping option too).

Guptill, KW, Taylor and Latham are 4 guns out of 5. NZC need Munro to become a gun in that top 5. And keep thinking about balance if injury strikes, because not all these players have the same secondary skills (eg Nicholls is handy with the gloves, Munro is handy as a bowling option, Phillips is a wicket keeper).

If there is a shortage of primary talent, stack the batting with allrounders in the tail! Why stack the bowling with 7 or more options when runs are at a premium?
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:16 am

One of Misty's favourite NZC players, Glenn Phillips - has just managed 3 NZA ducks vs Pakistan in a row!!!!!!!!

Yes, he has three ducks in a row.

Will Young has had an improving series while Worker, Bruce and Watling have disappointed.

All hopes of a tidy score now rest on the shoulders of Rachin Ravindra with Will Young.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:38 am

Will Young with scores of 40, 40 and currently 134* - play this kid over Watling please in ODI. Just give Nicholls the back up keeper job. Please, please, please.
Last edited by Paddles on Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:44 am

Young with 136(136) - the ONLY batting success of this NZA series. He averaged 72 where Phillips averaged 0. Send him to the head of the queue please.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:08 am

NZA 265/8 - good chance to defend this?
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:50 pm

Ford Trophy is under way:

Things to note out of round 1. Sean Solia made 63 opening the innings to go with a 133* in the first round. And Jimmy Neesham bowled 10 overs for 59 runs and for 72 runs, while that is not impressive in and of itself, it is very significant that he is bowling his full quota. He also made 63 at better than a run a ball.

The seamers are dominating - which one would expect for October in NZ. The rugby season isn't even over yet.

Sean Solia has a list a batting average of 57 now with 2 centuries and 5 fifties in 16 games. His part time bowling is also more than useful.

Hopefully he plays for NZA this summer in the 1 day stuff and performs well.
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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby bolero » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:34 am

Paddles wrote:This post is more for Bolero than anyone else who is so interested in people of Indian origin. But:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/ ... 59767.html

Rachin Ravindra (the next big hope for NZC identified early at schoolboy level and carefully managed) has played his first List A/First Class level match.

And it was for NZA!

His talent suggests that he will be a top order batsman one day - at least that is what he has been groomed to be, but he has some very useful spin bowling as well.

The spin bowling utility has enabled him to be fast-tracked.

If all goes well, he should be ready to replace Ross Taylor (or Latham slip down to 4) when he retires.


Nice to know.

NZ missing Santner. He is very good. I like him a lot.

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Re: Land of the Long White Cloud - NZ Cricket thread

Postby Paddles » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:23 am

bolero wrote:
Paddles wrote:This post is more for Bolero than anyone else who is so interested in people of Indian origin. But:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/ ... 59767.html

Rachin Ravindra (the next big hope for NZC identified early at schoolboy level and carefully managed) has played his first List A/First Class level match.

And it was for NZA!

His talent suggests that he will be a top order batsman one day - at least that is what he has been groomed to be, but he has some very useful spin bowling as well.

The spin bowling utility has enabled him to be fast-tracked.

If all goes well, he should be ready to replace Ross Taylor (or Latham slip down to 4) when he retires.


Nice to know.

NZ missing Santner. He is very good. I like him a lot.


NZ without Guptil as well. 2 of NZC's best 5 ODI cricketers are missing from this series. I like Pakistan's chances of winning this time around unfortunately.

Santner is a fantastic limited overs player - he has an e/r of 4.9 in ODI cricket having debut'd AFTER the 2015 World Cup. It is quite extraordinary. And his batting gets better all the time. Poor kid got an IPL deal this year only to be injured. His deal was with CSK too.

But I wouldn't have necessarily had him in my test team - he just doesn't take many wickets in tests, just holds up an end at 2.79 runs per over - although maybe has second spinner on a turning pitch I would have.

Todd Astle deserves to be the first choice there for now imo. Toddy takes wickets and unlike Sodhi, bowls less boundary balls (and bats better than Ish).
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